Excerpts from a letter signed "Yang Wei-feng":
Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 11:20 AM
You should watch your mouth before you speak...
Thank you. How very thoughtful of you.
"ALL Christians -- including Reformed Baptist Thinker -- shall spend 1000 years in darkness from which, if they do not accept Witness Lee's religion, they shall be sent to hell." Now that is a false statement. Witness Lee did not create any religions. Overcomers will enter the Kingdom of God and others will spend 1000 years in darkness, sure, but is that what moves you?
In other words, Wei-feng is disturbed that Li founded and controlled a new religion, but it does not bother him that Li sends all Christians to a thousand years in outer darkness (and then to hell)?!
PS - there's no such thing as GOOD or BAD. Remember that good and bad come from *the tree of the knowledge of good and evil*... that same tree where evil comes from.
This is a much statement of Liite amorality than I could have made. Think about it. To the Liites, there is neither good nor evil, so they can do whatever they want. How is that different from the Satanists' formula: "Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law"?
Thank you for such clarity, Wei-feng!
Thursday, 22 December 2011
Excerpts from a letter signed "Yang Wei-feng":
Friday, 8 August 2008
The Liites win two entries under "Really Bad Theology" at the Spurgeon Archive.
Affirmation & Critique - This is the journal of "The Local Church" movement, whose guru was Witness Lee. The vagueness of the pseudo-scholarly writing you'll find here is the only thing that disguises how bad this theology is. (See "Amana Christian Bookstore" below.) This group is prone to be litigious against people who label them a "cult." Cult or not, I think their theology is deplorable. So sue me.
Amana Christian Bookstore - Touting the works of Watchman Nee and Witness Lee. The followers of these two writers belong to a movement called "The Local Church," which advocates some—um—rather unusual views on church polity, mysticism, and the Scriptures. Their movement has often been called cultish, and they have used litigation to try to quell the labeling of their movement as a "cult." This Web site has a section devoted to telling their side of one such lawsuit. The documents related to the lawsuit you'll find here are fascinating. The theology promulgated here, however, is bad. For an account of why it is bad theology, see the material retrieved from Jim Moran's Light of Truth Ministries Web Site. (After Moran's unexpected death in January 2003, The Local Church purchased rights to Moran's exposés of their group and his domain names, and have tried to squelch the information that material contains). Finally, although we do not recommend Miles Stanford's material in general, (see under "Bad Theology"), he wrote an informative critique of Nee and Lee.
"Proudly serving roadkill from the information superhighway since 1995."
Phil Johnson is an ordained elder at Grace Community Church of Sun Valley, California, USA.
Source: Phil Johnson's Bookmarks
Sunday, 3 February 2008
An interview with Neil Duddy in UPDATE magazine.
by Johannes Aagaard and Thomas O’Connor
In 1979, Swiss publisher Schwengeler-Verlag published a short book on a movement of six hundred churches known as The Local Church. It’s title “Die Sonderlehre des Witness Lee” translates in English as The Peculiar Teachings af Witness Lee. About 4,000 copies were sold to German-speaking Europeans.
This book was contested in Swiss court by the Stuttgart, West Germany, Local Church, but the suit and subsequent appeal were dismissed. In 1981 the Local Church took the suit to Oakland, California. Schwengeler, and the two co-authors Neil Duddy and the Spiritual Counterfeits Project (SCP) were the defendants.
We present this interview and article about the teachings of the Local Church and its leader Witness Lee as a service to our readers who are interested in the many variations of new religious movements found in the world today. Some, as in the case of the Local Church, have their roots in the Christian faith and can be misidentified as orthodox denominations unless close scrutiny is made of the teachings and organizational methods.
Read the full article...
Wednesday, 26 December 2007
Outer darkness and extinction in the eternal fires of hell.
One important thing to remember for all readers here, whether a believer in Christ or not, is that according to Witness Lee, y'all are going to hell.
On this point and many others Witness Lee's religion is just like any other cult. Take the Jehovah's Witnesses for example. The practical consequence of their god-talk is that everyone, including most Jehovah's Witnesses, is damned. The Watchtower Society, the JWs' vatican, teaches that only 144,000 will actually be saved. Now after more than 100 years of existence, the JWs have grown so that their number, living and dead, is what, in the millions? These millions of JWs (and everyone else for that matter) face everlasting extinction of their souls.
The ghostly triage.
So what does the Living Stream Ministry, the fabulously rich vatican of the Local Church, teach? It teaches a triage: of believers in Witness Lee, of Christians, and of everyone else. Good believers in Witness Lee who have pray-read Lee's writings become God. To be sure, they do not become God's head, but God's body. I am not sure where the infinite God keeps his body, but it is there waiting, literally, for finite men magically to turn into it.
And what happens to Christians, you ask? Christians do not accept Witness Lee's religion, therefore they will be cast at the end times into outer darkness for a thousand years.
But it's not that simple. There's more to it, but first I want to show you why Lee made up this doctrine because I find the story interesting. You see to make his living, Lee had to sell his tapes and books (actually they were all ghost-written by John Ingalls and Al Knoch, but that is another story) to somebody. He needed an audience. America was a Christian country, he was told, and so he decided to market his material toward Christians. Thus he would publish his materials using the same technical vocabulary that Christians use.
Lee heard a lot of Christians talk about "getting saved," so he would, too. However as one might expect, Lee didn't really understand what getting saved was; but that didn't matter, he would make up his own definition and sell that as a new revelation from God.
The king is dead, long live the king.
For his revelation, Lee turned to his native China, the land of leaving fruit do the goddess of money and the land where the uttermost joy was Nirvana; that is, to become nothing and merge with God who was All. Lee's twist on Nirvana was that everyone who pray-read his words literally took a piece of God within him. "Getting saved" was the first piece of God you get. The process is like tea in water: tea dissolves, mingling with the water, making the water tea-like. The more tea you add into the cup, the less water there is. If you keep adding tea, at length the cup will be full of tea and empty of water. In the end there is no water, only tea.
In other words, you cease to exist; you are God. The king is dead, long live the king.
Now to loop back to the fate of Christians.
Because Christians "get saved," they still have that first piece of God inside them. But since they failed to purchase Lee's massive amount of materials and failed to pray-read them, this first piece never grew. The tea-cup has a little tiny piece of tea in it, but it is still mostly water. Since you, the wicked Christian, did not buy and pray-read Lee's stuff, you are not God yet and you can't be admitted unto heaven.
But since you do have a tiny piece of God in you, you can't go to hell straightway because God does not like it there. So instead, you are sent to 1000 years of outer darkness, where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Christian readers will recognize this as a perversion of Jesus' parable of the virgins.)
Now as I said far back at the beginning, the fate of Christians does not stop in outer darkness. That is only for a thousand years.
Lee taught that Christians would be granted one more chance to choose Lee's doctrines. And if they refuse? They go to hell, where the fires burn man's soul to separate out the God mingled with the man, like cinder running from a fire. When that is done, Christians will meet the same fate as Jehovah's Witnesses: their souls become extinct.
Everyone else, including Liites that did not pray-read enough Living Stream books, likewise go to hell where they are destroyed.
That leaves one unanswered question.
If a Christian at the end of his thousand years in outer darkness does choose Lee, how does his check for pray-reading material reach the Living Stream offices in Anaheim?
Sunday, 9 December 2007
In a discussion list, the late Bob Passantino is remembered.
Very sorry to hear of your profound loss. May the Father of compassion be with you during your time of grief and sorrow. We can be comforted in knowing Bob is in the presence of our precious Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Please know his apologetic work regarding the Local Church of Witness Lee was not in vain. Many materials are being gathered from sources around the world that clearly justify the positions you and Bob took about this particular group. Your concerns were well founded.
Below is just a sampling of some of the highlights of materials now being made available to the public. For each item is substantial documentation.
THE HIDDEN HISTORY THE LOCAL CHURCH OF WITNESS LEE IN AMERICA
1. An official Letter of Dissociation signed by 21 Local Church leaders in Europe dissociating themselves from the LSM because: "It has come to our attention recently through several witnesses that gross immorality and some other sins mentioned in 1 Corinthians 5:11 have been committed by your son Philip Lee (who is identified as your Ministry Office) on more than one occasion over a long period of time. This deeply disturbs us. It grieves us even more that you and some of your close coworkers were aware of the situation and yet not only tolerated it but covered it up."
2. The testimony of John So who also wrote "I Myself Also Am A Man" to refute the heresy of man becoming God.
3. A letter by Bill Mallon to Witness Lee explaining how the LSM abused the Local Churches in the Southeast U.S. where he was once a coworker. The author of the site also does a comparison of what Lee said Bill wrote to him and what Bill actually did write to him.
4. Exerpts from a book by John Ingalls, another fomrer coworker who knew Witness Lee, the LSM, etc. intimately. His book is tilted "Speaking the Truth in Love" and explains what happened in the Local Churches and LSM during the late 80's and early 90's.
5. Refers to an 11 page letter by Ken Unger's wife. Ken Unger was a leader in Huntington Beach and his wife worked in the LSM and knew how it operated. When she and Ken tried to read this well prepared letter to Witness Lee he cut her off and would not let her finish.
6. Rosemead division details exposing the very adverse effect the LSM at on that congregation and other ridiculous teachings and practices from the LSM such as:
a. "Success of revolution depends on propaganda. To take the New Way we need to learn from the Communists in their propaganda techniques. The way of propaganda is through the clever use of our tongues."
b. "We need to learn from the Red Guards. Even we nedd to learn from Satan for whenever God wants to do a work, Satan is always one step ahead."
c. "The New Way requires no prayers. The more you pray, the more confused you are. Just follow the instructions and do it. You'll be all right."
d. "We need to squeeze money out of the brothers and sisters."
The leader sent there by Witness Lee i.e. Francis Ball, under the direction of LSM, did such things as lock the meeting place to force the congregation to go to LSM meetings in Anaheim instead of their own, etc.
7. Raleigh leaders visit to Witness Lee. These leaders prepared a 71 page work titled: "Concerns Regarding our Practice Regarding Truth and Life" which Witness Lee promised to review with them. But when they went to talk with him they testified Brother Lee had no ear to hear them. It was as if they were talking to a wall.
8. OKC Couple. Refers to a couple in the Local Church in OKC who divorced against the wife's wishes. The wife was shunned by the Local Church there because she said it was becoming a cult. The leaders were not against the husband divorcing his wife and the wife was never allowed to enter their meeting hall again. When she tried the leaders told her to get off their property or they would call the police.
9. Witness Lee's Sons: A long 44 page e-mail dialogue with a former Local Church leader and the author of the Hiding History site detailing the behind the scences corrupt financial and ual adventures of Witness Lee's sons and the LSM against the members of the Local Churches and how Witness Lee knowingly covered it up and even engaged in some of the corrupt financial dealings himself.
Again, this is not an exhaustive list of contents but it should give the reader of this posting the general idea of the sort of things that go on in the Local Church and LSM and why many many believers left and still leave when they find out what really goes on underneath the shiny "spiritual" veneer and bullying legal tactics.
Friday, 7 September 2007
The consequences of believing you are right and everyone else is wrong.
The Liite cult imposes severe mental pain and psychological problems on followers of Li who sincerely believe in the delusions of the religion. Which religion is not Christian. This is no small point; not only does the cult attack Christianity vociferously, but its dogmas and god-talk (too simplistic to be a theology) are exactly the opposite to what Christians have always believed. For example, Liites, insisting that all the world is wrong, takes on the Holy Trinity and gets it exactly backwards. Naturally whenever Chang-Shou Li, the founder of the Liites, was told that his god-talk was wrong, he declared that he alone was right and everyone else was wrong.
This may well have been a flippant response, but it does have strategic value. Of course, Li's mistake on the Trinity was fruit of his incompetence, his inability (or stubborn refusal) to understand Christian teachings, clearly laid out long ago. But by declaring everyone wrong and him alone right, Li was exacting discipline of his followers.
That is, he was increasing their dependence on his misconstrued dogmas; since he alone was right and everyone else was wrong, his followers were obliged to buy his books, and only his books. Thus Li's was income was guaranteed as long as the hierarchy beneath Li's Living Stream Ministry was in place, and he would remain a fabulously wealthy man.
Even if one does not believe in Christ, he should be wary of anyone outright lying about his religion. Had Li admitted the truth, that he followed his own version of Buddhism and rejected Christ, he would have been socially tolerated. But Li would have had little success preaching a strange brand of Buddhism in a Christian country that had few Buddhists. He would not have been given a multi-million dollar estate in Anaheim, California. He would not have flown around the world free of charge.
Skim through the following, the ancient summation of the Persons and Substance of the Trinity, dating far back to ca. 361 AD. It is known commonly as the "Creed of Athanasius."
WHOSOEVER will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the true faith.
Which faith except everyone do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
And the true faith is this: That we worship one God in trinity, and trinity in unity, neither confounding the persons, nor dividing the substance.
For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost.
But the godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one, the glory equal, the majesty co-eternal.
Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost.
The Father uncreate, the Son uncreate, and the Holy Ghost uncreate.
The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost incomprehensible.
The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Ghost eternal.
And yet they are not three eternals, but one eternal.
As also there are not three incomprehensibles, nor three uncreated, but one uncreated, and one incomprehensible.
So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Ghost almighty.
And yet they are not three almighties, but one Almighty.
SO the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God.
And yet they are not three gods, but one God.
So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord.
And yet not three lords, but one Lord.
For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be both God and Lord,
So are we forbidden by the true religion, to say there be three gods, or three lords.
The Father is made of none, neither created, nor begotten.
The Son is of the Father alone, not made, nor created, but begotten.
The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son, neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
SO there is one Father, not three fathers; one Son, not three sons; one Holy Ghost, not three holy ghosts.
And in this Trinity none is afore, or after other; none is greater, or less than another;
But the whole three persons are co-eternal together and co-equal.
So that in all things, as is aforesaid, the unity in trinity and the trinity in unity is to be worshipped.
He therefore that will be saved must think thus of the Trinity.
FURTHERMORE, it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man;
GOD, of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of the substance of his mother, born in the world;
Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.
Equal to the Father, as touching his godhead; and inferior to the Father, as touching his manhood;
Who, although he be God and man, yet he is not two, but one Christ;
One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh but by taking of the manhood into God;
One altogether; not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.
For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;
Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead.
He ascended into heaven, he sitteth at the right hand of the Father, God almighty, whence he will come to judge the quick and the dead.
At whose coming all men will rise again with their bodies and shall give account for their own works.
And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
This is the catholic Faith, which except a man believe faithfully, he cannot be saved.
Now compare this with what Chang-Shou Li, the founder of the Living Stream Ministry, the Liite cult, and the "Acting God" on earth:
"The Father, the Son, and the Spirit are not three separate persons or three Gods; they are one God, one reality, one person" (Witness Lee, The Triune God to Be Life to the Tripartite Man, Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1970, p. 48).
What Li has done here is reverse the Trinity; instead of God of one substance in three persons, he has three substances in one person. This is exactly the opposite to Christianity. Athanasius says "neither dividing the substance," but Li has done exactly that.
Li has performed violence on God.
Lest there be any doubt that Liites worship something besides the Christian God, read the following:
"Therefore, it is clear: The Lord Jesus is the Father, the Son, and the Spirit, and He is the very God. He is also the Lord. He is the Father, the Son, the Spirit, the Mighty God, and the Lord" (Witness Lee, The Clear Scriptural Revelation Concerning the Triune God www.contendingforthefaith.org
Once again, Li preaches a unitarian deity, but slyly calls it a "trinity."
And since Li's god changes in what he calls a "divine economy" from Jesus through the Holy Spirit to God the Father, Li's god is not the eternal, unchanging God of Christianity, but something that follows the dharma wheel of Buddhism.
Are the two views, Liite and Christian, compatible?
Athanasius says no: "except a man believe faithfully, he cannot be saved." And even more explicitly: "they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil into everlasting fire." Therefore, according to Athanasius, all Liites are destined to where?
Wednesday, 5 September 2007
What is the Liite cult all about?
Why does it spend so much energy in psychologically harming its members and persecuting (high-rolling lawsuits against) Christians?
The answer is money.
"For the love of money is the root of all evil." Since 1963, when Chang-Shou Li first established the Living Stream Ministry (LSM), his organization has been all about money.
The LSM sells books. Very badly written books. Boring books. Anti-Christian books. The only way that the LSM can sell these books is by governing a totalitarian cult wherein its books and only its books are sold and are the basis of all religious ritual (such as "pray-reading" and shrieking "O Lord Jesus"). Without its own tightly controlled cult organization, the LSM could sell nothing.
And the LSM must attack all levels of the church, the body of Christ, to eliminate all possible competition lest its followers spend their money on books sold by someone else.
Even with such a monopoly on a captive audience, no one reads much of anything printed by the LSM. Its publications are long and pedantic, confusing, twisted, boring, and to any healthy person, offensive. But a totalist cult can require its followers to buy them.
The LSM makes little effort to make its publications readable or to give them any value to the reader. There is no reason to do so. Once sold, who cares what the doop who bought them does with them? The LSM has his money. Poor fellow.
The same can be said for the LSM's labyrinth of training camps, full time trainings, conferences, cell meetings, socialized living arrangements, book stores, internet sales, and tax-free donations. Who cares what doops do with the product? The LSM has their money.
Chang-Shou Li lived in a lavishly landscaped and furnished, tax-free, multi-million dollar estate on Ball Road in Anaheim, California. He traveled all around the world several times a year and all his living and traveling expenses were provided free of charge, courtesy of victimized doops. I am confident the same can be said of his successor at the LSM (2007), Andrew Yu.
After operating expenses, the LSM has been able to build its officially publicized $72-million war-chest.
Something to think about.
Friday, 24 August 2007
A slab of stale bread is better than nothing.
Nothing is better than a thick juicy steak.
Therefore, a slab of stale bread is better than a thick juicy steak.
If this is confusing to you, then you may be vulnerable to Liite propaganda.
If this is so dumb it makes you laugh, then maybe the Liites will never have a hold on you.